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  1. #1

    Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    21CW vs GC is here!!

    So after much negotiations and wrangling over the format and rules I am proud to announce that following the results of the poll we have listened to the community and are happy and excited to produce for you the first ever 21CW vs GC campaign.

    In this thread I will explain the format and also answer any questions anyone might have.

    First off.

    Balancing: I know it was the hot topic on everyones minds so its best I get this out of the way first. Having looked at the options available to us and after much discussion it was agreed between both communities that asset players were most in need of balance as they have the largest immediate impact on the battlefield. Thats not to say that infantry can not also be unbalanced but upon review the skill levels between both of our groups infantry players appeared to be pretty much equal. After looking into both communities available asset players (we made a nice document which you can all look at here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...t#gid=0(please do not edit it)) it became obvious that there really is no need to balance immediately prior to the campaign as the numbers are roughly equal. There are some players who are signed up for both communities, once they decide who they want to play for , then should there be an unbalance it will be addressed.

    In the meantime we have agreed on the following simple rule for balance of assets. On the battleday should one side have no asset player available to fill a slot whether it be armour, jet, helo , boat whatever and the other side have more than one asset player for that slot, they will send the extra player to the opposing side to balance out until one becomes available for the side missing players in the slot. This may mean reinforcing the opposing side for a battleday but not a full campaign, which was the main contention.

    Regarding number balancing, we will be using the tried and true method of no more than 2 advantage in numbers to one side (not counting admin staff).

    Ok that out of the way, lets talk the nitty gritty.

    Format: We will be playing the campaign for 10 weeks maximum using the following scoring system similar to our current 21CW one. Each side will pick 3 maps per week, with one map being infantry only, the infantry only maps cannot run consecutively. Map advantage (who gets their map first) will be rotated each week, the side with advantage will also get to choose when they want to play their infantry map. Each map will be played twice, the winner of the map will get 3 points, the loser none, in the event of a draw (both teams win 1 round) then each side gets 1 point. If at any point in the campaign one team reaches 70 points the campaign is called with that team being the winner.

    So that means 6 maps per week in a 6 hour battle. The startime will be 1hr later than our usual time, starting at 18.00 gmt, 13.00 eastern.

    Should we get to less than half hr to go in the time allotted with one map still to play, that map will be cancelled rather than overun the timeslot.

    Rules: Rather than list every rule here, since the majority are the same as our normal camps, here is the spreadsheet for the ones we had to decide upon : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...LS0/edit#gid=0

    The major changes are: Baserapeing, this will no longer be allowed. As air vehicles do not always spawn at mains on all maps, air vehicles are not allowed to be engaged for 5 seconds after spawn. If something fires from main base, it makes itself active and open for return fire, also should something leave base, fire, then return, it is counted as active.

    Maps restricted are Metro and Lockers these are banned.

    Weapons and other things to be restricted are going to be left to the discretion of the generals as we normally do here at 21CW and will be decided by comittee prior to the camp start.

    Breaks: There will be the usual 5 minutes between maps, and half an hr break roughly in the middle of the battleday.

    When does it start: We are looking at 2 scrims prior to starting the camp to allow us all to get to know one another, check that things are working properly, adjust the ticket counts/bleed rates etc . The first scrim will be on 19.09.2015.

    Who will enforce it: Admins from both sides will have procon access and will enforce rules equally for both sides policing each other. In the event that something happens that both admin staffs are at an impasse and unable to make a decision on, 2 owners from each community will meet and make a final decision.

    Where are we playing: We will be using a neutral teamspeak for the battledays, here is the address: ts.global-conflict.org:9988. Ignore that it has global-conflict in the name, it is not their tournament ts, and both sets of admins have equal powers. We will use our NA server and GCs EU server during battleday, half battle on one, half on the other.


    So thats pretty much it. I hope you are all as excited as I am about the oppertunity to finally play large scale battles like we are meant to and of the chance to make new friends. Please post any questions you have here and I will answer them to the best of my ability.

    /Salutes to my fellow 21CW braves, may we slay the enemys and have fun while we do so
    Last edited by [TA]Niz; 09-08-2015 at 02:36 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    looks good .... the only thing missing is just banning jets doesn't seem to be a lot of people for that so... nor many vehicle players for that matter

    From our side people who usually jump to armor aswell and possibly missing from the list include Jasper, Blockhead, Machakio, Source, Farreep, BlackOps and Silent (if he keeps on playing) ...

    As for Snowblind he's usually occupied with his life stuff and Level and Commie with a new born/work/studies is pretty busy although he wishes he could play i don't think we can count them both in for now...
    21CW Lesson (Sword, Silent, Dogma, Webke): If something or someone keeps killing you, stop crying about it and figure out a way to stop it.

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  3. #3

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Was it discussed that by playing 6 maps a week it will make it virtually impossible to prepare for, and that we will end up playing maps over and over and over ? What is there in place to prevent a zavod/golmud every weekend ?


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  4. #4

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by (IMAB)K|Cpt.Juno[XLV] View Post
    Was it discussed that by playing 6 maps a week it will make it virtually impossible to prepare for, and that we will end up playing maps over and over and over ? What is there in place to prevent a zavod/golmud every weekend ?
    There's a little caveat to this, we've added the infantry only mode, so there's a bit more variation. However this a valid question, I think we'd best bring it up in the next meeting, although it will also be the general's responsibility on how to approach this.
    I figured you guys used a map pool that renews when empty (which is what we use at GC)? (EG: Zavod 311 64V is picked, it cannot be picked by the same team again until the map pool is empty). Here's what I've prepared for the generals to use (if they want to) so you can get an idea https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...s7o/edit#gid=0

  5. #5

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    What about using the 2 most balanced maps of last week again?

  6. #6

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by [IMAB]W|Cpt.Jasper View Post
    What about using the 2 most balanced maps of last week again?
    Personally I am very much against playing any map two weeks in a row , regardless of the result. I hope we use vipers suggestion, as considering we already play Golmud/Zavod all the freaking time and none of the other maps really get a fair shake.

    I'm interested to know how the preparation gap will play out as well. 6 Maps is A LOT of maps for one day. If our goal is to be organized, I see having that many maps as a major roadblock to that - I can make strats and maps with the best of them, but that's just simply too much.


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  7. #7

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by (IMAB)K|Cpt.Juno[XLV] View Post
    Personally I am very much against playing any map two weeks in a row , regardless of the result. I hope we use vipers suggestion, as considering we already play Golmud/Zavod all the freaking time and none of the other maps really get a fair shake.

    I'm interested to know how the preparation gap will play out as well. 6 Maps is A LOT of maps for one day. If our goal is to be organized, I see having that many maps as a major roadblock to that - I can make strats and maps with the best of them, but that's just simply too much.
    So, being honest, I hadnt even considered that, and neither had GC , they just figured we must use that system already. So anyway Ive had a chat, and provisionally we are happy to use Vipers map pool suggestion, obviously that will be upon Generals ok once we have one.

    Regarding map picks, GC normally does theirs on a thursday, Ive told them that that is just a no go for us, its far too late in the week, so we have tentatively agreed to Monday midnight at latest. Which I think is probably a good compromise and leaves us enough time.

    Regarding numbers balancing. Do any of you have a problem with moving players on battleday to balance numbers as we normally do. Or would you feel that it isnt a good idea as its a vs camp and it might have conflict of interest. Because the only other option is to force players to sit out if one side is over.

  8. #8

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Move players as required. Make it on a voluntary basis so that noone feels forced (though that may be more difficult with asset players). Some people (myself for example) are here to play regardless of side. We already have issues with numbers, so I can´t imagine players happily sitting out because one side is actually undermanned. They do that on DSG and it is clearly not a good solution as far as I have experienced it.

  9. #9

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Ye GC have no problem with it, I dont, I just wondered if you guys might. I didnt think so, but Ive been wrong before

  10. #10

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by (IMAB)K|Cpt.Juno[XLV] View Post
    Was it discussed that by playing 6 maps a week it will make it virtually impossible to prepare for, and that we will end up playing maps over and over and over ? What is there in place to prevent a zavod/golmud every weekend ?
    Wiat how is this different than the last weeks here in 21CW? Apparently this doesn't present an issue to most since it hasn't changed with the IC meetings... nor did i see posts about it... at least on the public session of the forums... dunno about IMAB forums...

    Besides i don't see any practices at least in EU timezones or even earlier NA times but i could be wrong so... Anyways... most basic stuff and most of the info a squad needs to be efective translates to many flags on several maps so...
    21CW Lesson (Sword, Silent, Dogma, Webke): If something or someone keeps killing you, stop crying about it and figure out a way to stop it.

    "Remember that guy who gave up? neither does anybody else"

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  11. #11

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by [ASF]KSK|Pvt.Ethn1ckX View Post
    Wiat how is this different than the last weeks here in 21CW? Apparently this doesn't present an issue to most since it hasn't changed with the IC meetings... nor did i see posts about it... at least on the public session of the forums... dunno about IMAB forums...

    Besides i don't see any practices at least in EU timezones or even earlier NA times but i could be wrong so... Anyways... most basic stuff and most of the info a squad needs to be efective translates to many flags on several maps so...
    Wait, so because you don't have a problem with it, and because your division doesn't have practices that means it's not an issue ? If you don't want to prepare, don't. Some of us do have practices and do like to prepare however, thus why I brought up my concern. I had several practices this campaign and I had a hell of a hard time coming up with what to show people as I had so much to cover.


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  12. #12

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Guys lets not get into sniping at each other over what does and doesnt get done. This is a new camp, something we have never done before, there will be a need to have practices.

    Juno, I see your concerns, at the moment 6 maps is what was agreed, but obviously the generals will have to sign off on this once they are appointed. Should the generals feel that planning for 6 maps will be too time intensive, then Im sure some compromise will be reached.

    Personally I dont feel planning for 6 maps is that much more intensive than 4, since lots of things you do on one map and flag will translate accross to another easily, the main thing is writing strats, but since we have plenty of strats on file, at worst it might mean dragging some old strats out of the closet and dusting them off if the workload is too hard.

    Ps if you feel that strongly about it, we are taking applications for general :P

  13. #13

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    A really nice experiment would be to practice on three maps, and devise generic "translated" strats for the three others. I really wonder how the win ratio would compare on the maps prepared during the week vs the "translated" maps on battleday...

  14. #14

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by [TA]Niz View Post
    Guys lets not get into sniping at each other over what does and doesnt get done. This is a new camp, something we have never done before, there will be a need to have practices.

    Juno, I see your concerns, at the moment 6 maps is what was agreed, but obviously the generals will have to sign off on this once they are appointed. Should the generals feel that planning for 6 maps will be too time intensive, then Im sure some compromise will be reached.

    Personally I dont feel planning for 6 maps is that much more intensive than 4, since lots of things you do on one map and flag will translate accross to another easily, the main thing is writing strats, but since we have plenty of strats on file, at worst it might mean dragging some old strats out of the closet and dusting them off if the workload is too hard.

    Ps if you feel that strongly about it, we are taking applications for general :P
    I tried that(applying for general), twice in the last two camps and you guys turned me down I think I'll take the hint


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  15. #15

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Sounds good guys, I'm looking forward to it. As Ethnickx mentioned I'm happy to run assets if needed.
    "We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw

  16. #16

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Why have we banned Metro and Lockers. They're the bee's knees!

  17. #17

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    10/14/2015
    Quote Originally Posted by (RT)BanJaxGav View Post
    If we are talking numbers here has it ever been discussed about merging with other tournaments that play the game in a similar way to us? Im sure they experience the same type of problems we do in attracting new talent.
    Nice one, hopefully it works out

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  18. #18

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    wait you posted that when? Either in Banjaxworld there are 14 months, or you posted that from the future, or both

  19. #19

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    so... there's a calendar up for a first scrim... what are the maps? strats? practices? players of the 21CW army? companies? leadership?

    seems a bit weird going into a scrim without even having things setup
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  20. #20

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Haha Niz 😂 I meant 14/10/2014. I'm moving house over next few weeks, hopefully my Internet will be more reliable would love to play in this!
    Quote Originally Posted by [TA]Niz View Post
    wait you posted that when? Either in Banjaxworld there are 14 months, or you posted that from the future, or both

  21. #21

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    So the 21CW camp has been shit canned?
    "Tappy tap tap"


  22. #22

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by [IMAB]KPD|PVT.lihou969 View Post
    So the 21CW camp has been shit canned?
    If you are talking about the camp that all of 13 people showed up to play in this battleday just gone, yes its been shitcanned.

    There will be an announcement by the admins on the end of the current camp and the upcoming camp within the next day or two.

  23. #23

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    DEATH TO GC!!!!
    "Tappy tap tap"


  24. #24

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    As was asked already - Just to reiterate - If we are supposed to have a scrim this weekend... who will be leading it/participating in it ? What companies will be involved ?


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  25. #25

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by (IMAB)K|Cpt.Juno[XLV] View Post
    As was asked already - Just to reiterate - If we are supposed to have a scrim this weekend... who will be leading it/participating in it ? What companies will be involved ?
    As was answered already, there will be an announcement about the upcoming camp in the next day or two.

  26. #26

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by [TA]Niz View Post
    As was answered already, there will be an announcement about the upcoming camp in the next day or two.
    That doesn't exactly give us any time to organize or plan


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  27. #27

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by (IMAB)K|Cpt.Juno[XLV] View Post
    That doesn't exactly give us any time to organize or plan
    How about you leave worrying about that to the general/hcos and let the admins do our jobs first? Cos no offence but if you arnt a general/hco you wont be doing much planning or organising anyway, and I havnt seen your name on that list.

  28. #28

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by [TA]Niz View Post
    How about you leave worrying about that to the general/hcos and let the admins do our jobs first? Cos no offence but if you arnt a general/hco you wont be doing much planning or organising anyway, and I havnt seen your name on that list.
    Once again need to read that rule about not insulting other players. Saying no offense doesn't make what you say after that any less offensive, nor does it excuse it or wipe it away.


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  29. #29

    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Nothing of what i said was insulting, its just how it is. If you arnt a general or a hco, then what do you need to plan for? All you need to know is we are making an announcement and thats that. What I find offensive is you blathering on all the time about shit you have no need to know about. All you need to know is whether you are going to show up or not, you dont need to know a plan, you dont need to make a strat and you certainly dont need to be badgering me about being offensive.

    I put no offence cos I know that you're incredibly touchy and take everything anyone says to you personally. Next time I'll just tell you to shut up and leave it at that.

  30. #30
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    Re: Announcing the upcoming 21CW vs GC campaign.

    Boom. Conversation over.

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